It has nothing to do with Calvinism

My response to this post on my status is at the bottom.

The post on my Status:
As i have watched and listened to discussions like this i wish to only say one thing and leave it. From what i continue to see Ryan... this keeps coming back to Calvinism and if it doesn't then please pretend i never even spoke.

Jesus Christ, Paul, Peter, Tozer, Ravenhill, Billy Graham and of course Ron Luce... from what i have heard... never even made a thought on Calvanism or Armenianism. Yes of Course Christ, paul, and peter wouldn't but look at history. These men of God changed the world through the Gospel alone. They were too busy preaching to the hearts of men that they didn't have time for such petty arguments and discussions... and indeed it is a waste of time.

Yes this view can help in your theology, but leave it to yourself. This is why though i have read and understand both views, i will not make a voiced opinion on one or the other simply because in this day and age too many of my brothers and sisters in the faith will close their ears to such opinions. So i simply fight the one's that i consider life and death in the spiritual sense.

Beyond this please go back to the very place where Paul spoke on predestination and consider the context all of you. Paul's words were for ENCOURAGMENT, not for argument and mind games. He was explaining to believers why they should be thankful and rejoice in God because they were chosen. He didn't mean for us to use his words as weapons on to one another and i'm sure if he saw this done today he would cry out to God in sorrow. So if you are a Calvanist then go and preach the gospel to others... i find it quite a bit interesting to see how many more people become "Elect" when they are presented the Gospel.

Please hear my words in light of my concern and no personal opinion. I love you guys.


My Response:

In truth it has nothing to do with Calvinism. it has to do with the Gospel it has to do with our preconceived notion that if God is love he is absent of wrath or that a loving God could never send people to hell a loving God would never through people into an eternity without his love and only his wrath (Revelation 20:15, Mark 9:47; Matthew 13:41-42) it has to do with the fact that we refuse and reject the God of the Bible. It has to do with our depravity. It has to do with human nature, our nature is to sin against a perfect, holy, righteous, loving, just, and wrathful God (Romans 3:10-18).

Let me give you an example. if God were to say... I don't know...bring a flood to wipe out all of mankind except for one man and his family, God would not only be perfect, holy, righteous, loving , and wrathful but he would be absolutely just in doing so(Genesis 6:1-8:22). Why? You might ask. I would say because god is sovereign. What does that mean? Well it mean that God does whatever he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, and He is perfect, holy, righteous, loving, and just for doing it, because he is God (Ps. 115:3, Ps. 135:6, Rom. 11:36).

In regards to keeping “opinions” to myself I am afraid I cannot do that. If I have the truth and I do not speak it, it would be as if I did not care that people were being thrown into hell. I am no lukewarm man, I do not intend to compromise the truth of the Gospel because it makes some uncomfortable, and I will not be on the fence waiting to “see how things go”. Jesus commanded and prefers that we either be hot or cold not in the middle (Revelation 3:15-16).

You are right that the Gospel brings about repentance to those who hear and are elect. But you cannot “become” elect. You either are or you are not, you are a sheep or a goat, you are wheat or weeds, God willed this before anything was ever created. On this point I will not bend Scripture is clear you do not choose God he chooses you. (John 6:65, Jonah 2:9, John 8:47, Ephesians 1:4-5,11, Romans 8:28-30, Matthew 11:27, 13:24-30, 13:36-43, 15:12-15, 22:12-14, 24:22-24, 25:31-46 etc.)

You see it is not about Calvinism, it’s about Scripture and ultimately God. Scripture is complete it is not faulty, God breathed it into existence. Scripture is our only absolute truth it is the thing we know will never contradict God because every bit of it represents God. So it is not about Calvinism it is about accurately representing Scripture and Truth, whether we like what is true or not. The fact that we have distain toward an idea does not negate the fact that it is true. (2 Peter 1:16,20-21, Luke 1:1-4, 2 Timothy 3:16-17)

So I encourage everyone, take a stance, do not be lukewarm, represent truth to the best of your finite ability, and be willing to submit your pride to what scripture says because you more you read the more you mindset will conform to God and the more you realize on some level you were wrong.

For more on Elect read this

John Piper - Why I abominate the prosperity gospel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLRue4nwJaA&feature=player_embedded

What does Piper mean when he says he's a seven-point Calvinist?

What does Piper mean when he says he's a seven-point Calvinist?

By DG Staff
January 23, 2006

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/2006/1418_What_does_Piper_mean_when_he_says_hes_a_sevenpoint_Calvinist/


When John Piper says he is a "seven point Calvinist," he does so half jokingly and half seriously. Historically, there are five points of Calvinism, not seven. Piper isn't seeking to add two more points, but is simply calling attention to his belief in the traditional five points (total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints) in a way that also points toward two additional "Calvinistic" truths that follow from them: double predestination and the best-of-all-possible worlds.

The "sixth" point, double predestination, is simply the flip side of unconditional election. Just as God chooses whom He will save without regard to any distinctives in the person (Ephesians 1:5-6; Acts 13:48; Revelation 17:8), so also he decides whom He will not save without regard to any distinctives in the individual (John 10:26; 12:37-40; Romans 9:11-18; 1 Peter 2:7-8). By definition, the decision to elect some individuals to salvation necessarily implies the decision not to save those that were not chosen. God ordains not only that some will be rescued from his judgment, but that others will undergo that judgment. This does not mean that someone might really want to be saved but then be rejected because they are on the wrong list. Rather, we are all dead in sin and unwilling to seek God on our own. A true, genuine desire for salvation in Christ is in fact a mark of election, and therefore none who truly come to Christ for salvation will be turned away (John 6:37-40).

So just as God doesn't choose to save certain people because they are better than others (unconditional election), neither does he choose not to save certain people because they are worse than others (unconditional reprobation, or double predestination). Rather, everybody is lost in sin and no one has anything to recommend them to God above anyone else. And so from this mass of fallen humanity, God chooses to redeem some and leave others.

The "seventh" point, the best-of-all-possible worlds, means that God governs the course of history so that, in the long run, His glory will be more fully displayed and His people more fully satisfied than would have been the case in any other world. If we look only at the way things are now in the present era of this fallen world, this is not the best-of-all-possible worlds. But if we look at the whole course of history, from creation to redemption to eternity and beyond, and see the entirety of God's plan, it is the best-of-all-possible plans and leads to the best-of-all-possible eternities. And therefore this universe (and the events that happen in it from creation into eternity, taken as a whole) is the best-of-all-possible-worlds.

The Inerrancy of Scripture

Sorry everyone it has been forever.

My heart breaks when I hear people speak of God as if he were limited by human rules and constraints. Recently I have heard things like “You know how the Bible says that God created the universe in seven days? Well then where do the dinosaurs come in? How did God create everything in seven days if the dinosaurs were around for millions of years?” First, of all that statement is illogical to me because of Genesis 1:1. “In the beginning GOD” that’s it that’s all I need to know. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Second, whether or not dinosaurs existed is irrelevant to the fact that the Bible says God Created the Universe in seven days.

The Bible is the infallible, inerrant word of God (2 Timothy 3:14-17), we are fallible creatures that make mistakes too often for us to count (Romans 3:10-18,23). We all make mistakes it is human nature. Romans 3: 12 “All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Not one of us is perfect not even ONE. My point is not that to discourage my friend or call anyone out (and I hope that is not how you take it). My point is there has been a lack of teaching to our generation about proper reading of scripture.

Knowing what your Bible says is of second importance to knowing how to read your Bible. I do not care if you have memorized every book in the bible it does not matter unless you have a proper understanding of what the author is saying. I have not memorized many verses in scripture but I have a decent knowledge of how to understand what those verses are saying.

I would simply be complaining if these three paragraphs were all I said. Context is the major thing that needs to be taken into consideration when reading our Bibles. Whenever I hear a verse quoted in a sermon, book, or just in conversation I ask three questions. Does this verse seem to contradict another scripture? (example: Psalms 5:5 and John 3:16) Who was this book written to? (usually at the start the book the author tells you exactly who he is writing to) What does this verse say in context of the chapter? (to go back to Psalm 5:5 and John 3:16 when you read to verse 18 it doesn’t contradict Psalm 5:5 any more) Scripture can not contradict itself so if it seems that way it is probably out of context. The last thing I make certain of when reading my Bible is all scripture has to glorify God, and actually the chief end of all things is to glorify God (Romans 11:36).

When we question one part of the word of God, the Bible, we leave the door open to question other things the Bible says. When we allow ourselves to think that Gods word is fallible and errant we allow Religious Relativism (all roads lead to God) and Philosophical Pluralism (There is no Absolute Truth, what’s true for you is true for you and what’s true for me is true for me) in to our lives. If this happens you would have to ask yourself what part of my bible will I cut out this week , where will my new boundaries be, and what is even sin anymore.

Be a Kinder Calvinist

http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/934_be_a_kinder_calvinist/

My wife and I were fighting—the kind where after 30 seconds you forget what you're fighting about and you just end up being mean. It doesn't take long in an argument like this to feel hopeless.

I wanted to call someone to come over and mediate. Actually, I didn't want to, but I knew I needed to do something. Our close friends who live near by and our small group leaders were all out of town, so I called a pastor who lives in the neighborhood and asked him to come over right then. I think he could tell by the tone of my voice and the unusual request that we really did need help immediately. He cancelled his Saturday plans and came over.

Sitting at our kitchen table, he helped us figure each other out. Soon we were getting to the heart of the matter. Molly turned to me and said, "You never treat me like you appreciate me."

I looked at her. I looked at our pastor. And then I listed three ways that I'd shown appreciation for her that morning. As far as I was concerned, things were taken care of. She thought I didn't act appreciatively, but I just showed her (definitively, I might add) that I did.

As you can imagine, things were not taken care of. As a matter of fact, my list, for all its accuracy, was completely irrelevant to Molly. This was when our pastor pointed something out to me that has forever changed the way I interact with my wife, and with everybody, for that matter.

He told me that, sure, it may be wrong to say that I never show appreciation, but clearly she feels that way, and right now that's what needs to be dealt with. And not just dealt with but acknowledged, understood, respected. Her words may have included a factual error, but what she was saying was completely true.

There is a letter on Scot McKnight's blog from a pastor who is very frustrated with certain Calvinists in his church. It would be easy enough to disregard it, pointing out that not all Calvinists are like that or that his use of the word "hyper-Calvinist" doesn't match correct theological jargon. But that would be missing the point. And, ironically, that reaction would only lend credence to the frustration that motivated the letter in the first place.

So how should we read this letter in a way that acknowledges, understands, and respects the discouragement of its author?

First, we should note that it is simply indisputable that some people are exactly the way he describes. When you see mean extremists in another circle, it reminds you why you don't run with that crowd. But when you see mean extremists in your own circle, it's just plain embarrassing. Unfortunately, until we are perfected there will always be mean people of every theological strain. But fortunately, we are a part of the church not merely for the company, but for Christ.

The second way to understand the letter is to see it (along with the numerous comments that follow) as abundant evidence that, to many, Calvinists come across as self-righteous, condescending, arrogant, unfriendly, argumentative, and even stingy. The fact that we're not all that way is irrelevant in the same way that it didn't matter to Molly that I had done three things to show I appreciate her—she still felt unappreciated. Her frustration was true because, whether or not I was grateful to my wife, I was perceived as an ingrate. Similarly, the frustration in the letter is true because, whether or not the Calvinists in the letter-writer's church are good folks, they come off as proud and divisive jerks. Those Calvinists, as church members, and I, as a husband, should change based on this information, regardless of how "inaccurately" the frustration may be worded.

In my marriage, it doesn't matter whether I'm thankful if I don't seem like it. And in the church, it doesn't matter whether we have the fruits of the Spirit if no one can tell.

It won't be easy to change the pejorative stereotype that clings to Calvinism, but we can start by admitting that it is accurate far too often. Then we can make sure we are manifestly not self-righteous, condescending, arrogant, unfriendly, or argumentative. Also, you can count on us to buy dinner or coffee sometimes.

Paying attention to those who disagree with us and taking them seriously, even if we're pretty sure we'll still disagree, is part of what it means to be in the body of Christ. It's humbling; it sanctifies. It will make us better husbands and wives. It will make us better Christians, and maybe even better Calvinists.

Perseverance of the Saints

http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/PerseveranceOfTheSaints.htm


Will the saints endure to the end? Can we know if we are going to endure?



Perseverance of the Saints does not mean "once saved always saved". This corruption of the doctrine has been popular in recent years, but has never been a true representation of the doctrine. "Once saved always saved" is more keenly given the name "Perseverance of the sinner" instead of "the saint". For it teaches that man can be saved by Christ and then sin habitually, do whatever he wants, and then still "persevere to the end". Perseverance of the saints does not teach this. Perseverance of the saints teaches that once God has renewed the heart of a sinner through the application of the redemption wrought by Christ upon the cross, he will continue to be saved and show forth the fruits of that salvation. The sinner perseveres because of Christ, but he continually shows himself as one who has been changed by Christ. God has saved the individual and will sanctify him until the end when he is ultimately glorified, and in heaven. It does not mean man has a license to sin. Those who think they have a license to sin are not changed and saved by grace. They are still in sin. Those who are saved by grace and changed, desire to show forth the fruits of that salvation. God motions the heart to good work, and continues that good work to the end.

John 6:37-39, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Phil. 1:6, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

1 Thess. 5:23-24, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it."

2 Tim. 4:18, "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Peter 1:23, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

Romans 8:29, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Reformed Music

https://www.noisetrade.com/raincityhymnal
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/music
http://www.reformedpraise.org/

Limited Atonement

http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/LimitedAtonement.htm

Limited Atonement
The Atonement of Jesus Christ is not limited in its power to save, but in the extent to which it reaches and will save certain individuals.



Limited atonement is a theological term that has been used for centuries to define a very important aspect of the Gospel. It is a fundamental Christian doctrine which states that Jesus Christ came and died for a limited number of people. He did not die, or redeem, every individual for all of time, but for some individuals, i.e. His sheep and His church. This does not mean that the power of His death could not have saved all men if He wanted to. The power and efficacy of His death in and through one drop of His blood could have saved a million-billion worlds. That was not what God intended. The Scripture does not dabble in "possibilities." It does, however, state that the scope of His death is limited.

Jesus Christ, much like the lamb of the Old Testament sacrifice, died for some people, and secured the salvation of those people through His death which took away their sin and imputed (or accounted) His own righteousness to them. This is something Christ accomplished on the cross; not something individuals initiate. It is true, as the Scriptures state, that he died for "all men" and that God loves "the whole world". In these cases "all men" does not mean every individual inclusively for all time including Judas and Pharaoh. Nor does it necessarily follow that Christ died for the whole world because God loves the whole world inclusively. (For a study of these passages see "the all and world passages" in Owen's Death of Death or in Calvin's the "all" passages.) Jesus secured the salvation of those for whom He gave his life, and for those God imputes His righteousness upon them. Jesus does not infallibly secure the salvation of all men, for thence, all men would be saved.

As the Maxim goes:
God imposed his wrath due unto, and Christ underwent the pains of hell for either:
1) All of the sins of all men - which means all men are saved.
2) Some of the sins of all men - which means men are still in their sins.
3) All of the sin of some men - which is the biblical position.

Those who hold to a deviant "gospel" must grapple with the fact that Jesus does His saving on the cross. All those for whom he died will be saved in time and justified by GOD.

It is not that Christ's power is "limited" but rather His intent or use OF THAT POWER is limited to those for whom He died, and chose.

The "limitation" of the extent is a deciding factor in the Gospel message as to whether one believes that the God of the GOSPEL SAVES, or that men save themselves because Jesus did not save anyone directly, but made it hypothetically possible that they could reach out and save themselves. Hypothetical salvation is no salvation at all.

Jesus died and secured the salvation of all those that the Father gave Him, and that cannot be snatched out of the Father's hands. It is not that Christ "might save, but that He IS the Savior. He does not lay His life down for all, but for His sheep. He does not give His life for Judas, but only for His friends. It is the church, not the world, which Christ has purchased with His own blood.

John 6:37-40, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Matthew 1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

John 10:15, "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."

John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Acts 20:28, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"

Total Depravity

http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/TotalDepravity.htm

Total Depravity
A look at the fallen nature of men.



Total depravity is the extensive ruin of man's nature. Man is made up of two parts primarily: the material (body) and the immaterial (soul). "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28. Both the body and soul are corrupted because of the fall. This does not mean that people are as a bad as they can be, but rather, that the effects of the Fall have completely ruined the total being of man. It is not just that man's mind is ruined, or that just his body is ruined, or that just his soul ruined. It means the whole man is corrupted with sin. This would mean that man cannot fundamentally do anything to please God. Isaiah 64:6, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." This depravity begins at conception. It does not begin when we do something bad. We are not sinners because we sin, rather, we sin because we are sinners. Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Depravity of the heart is completely extensive so that the creature (us), cannot will to do any good. All we do is evil. All we love is ourselves. We suppress God, and exalt ourselves.

1. Fallen man cannot do or work any good:

Matthew 7:17-18, "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

1 Cor. 12:3, "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."

John 15:4-5, "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

Romans 8:7-8, "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

2. Fallen man cannot comprehend or apprehend the good:

Acts 16:14, "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

Ephesians 4:18, "Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:"

2 Cor. 3:12-18, "Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

John 1:11, "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."

John 8:43, "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word."

Matthew 13:14, "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

1 Cor. 1:18, 21, "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

1 Cor. 2:14; "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

3. Man cannot have any desire towards the good:

Matthew 7:18, "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 8:43, "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word."

John 15:5, "...for without me ye can do nothing."

John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Ezek. 11:19, "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"

Ephesians 2:1,5, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)"

Jesus Died! - Paul Washer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11ASw5NRUw

John Piper and the Prosperity Gospel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s

Our Judeo-Christian Nation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQOCvthw-o

No, Mr. President: John Piper's Response to President Obama on Abortion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O68MByaMVdM

Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies

A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold Bible studies in their home, 10News reported.

Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife.

Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

The county employee notified the couple that the small Bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of County regulations, according to Broyles.

Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.

"For churches and religious assemblies there's big parking concerns, there's environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this Bible study is certainly misplaced," said Broyles.

News of the case has rapidly spread across Internet blogs and has spurred various reactions.

Broyles said his clients have asked to stay anonymous until they give the county a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.

Broyles also said this case has broader implications.

"If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" Broyles asked.

Broyles and his clients plan to give the County their demand letter this week.

If the County refuses to release the pastor and his wife from obtaining the permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

Mondays Press Release From the White House

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Presidential-Proclamation-LGBT-Pride-Month/

We need to pray for our president and our nation. This Release does not agree with our Lord or our Bible.


THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary

___________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release June 1, 2009

LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER PRIDE MONTH, 2009
- - - - - - -
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION

Forty years ago, patrons and supporters of the Stonewall Inn in New York City resisted police harassment that had become all too common for members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. Out of this resistance, the LGBT rights movement in America was born. During LGBT Pride Month, we commemorate the events of June 1969 and commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans.

LGBT Americans have made, and continue to make, great and lasting contributions that continue to strengthen the fabric of American society. There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. LGBT Americans also mobilized the Nation to respond to the domestic HIV/AIDS epidemic and have played a vital role in broadening this country's response to the HIV pandemic.

Due in no small part to the determination and dedication of the LGBT rights movement, more LGBT Americans are living their lives openly today than ever before. I am proud to be the first President to appoint openly LGBT candidates to Senate-confirmed positions in the first 100 days of an Administration. These individuals embody the best qualities we seek in public servants, and across my Administration -- in both the White House and the Federal agencies -- openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism.

The LGBT rights movement has achieved great progress, but there is more work to be done. LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.

My Administration has partnered with the LGBT community to advance a wide range of initiatives. At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security. We must also commit ourselves to fighting the HIV/AIDS epidemic by both reducing the number of HIV infections and providing care and support services to people living with HIV/AIDS across the United States.

These issues affect not only the LGBT community, but also our entire Nation. As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2009 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this first day of June, in the year of our Lord two thousand nine, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.

BARACK OBAMA

Nate Pfeil - The Fire

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